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  • From what I picked up, Blue Cosmos started out as environmental "activists" before Coordination became popular and they took to terrorism. Somehow they also get big honchos and politicos in their roster as well whether it's public or secret something that is referred to as LOGOS (which is fitting as it's a philosophical technical term). However, here's what I'm trying to say: what was their endgame aside from destroying the Coordinators? Durandel said that they wanted to profit off the wars and Djibril talked about controlling the world, but while I think the second is workable given their control of the EA's powerful member, the first conflicts with their genocidal intents for the Coordinators. So here's my theory: they had contacts in reconstruction as well as manufacturing. Thus, they'd be in a good position to reap profits from both the war and the time of rebuilding. Since the Azraels were in charge of the Atlantic Federation's top weapons provider, they probably had plans to plunder the technological stuff from the PLANTs and make even more money and influence. Thoughts?

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    • It's hard to say exactly what the workings were due to the degrading writing of SEED Destiny.  The idea of LOGOS, a group of shady CEOs that were part of the military-industrial complex, and basically bought and controlled politics and the military, and were war profiteers on a massive scale is something that people have questioned the possibility of in real life, and was a talked about subject at the time, due to the War in Iraq, and why the US went in despite large internal and external disapproval.  I agree that LOGOS probably did have contacts or members involved in reconstruction.  Also, likely, is that they would have supplied arms to both sides of the conflict if possible (much like Anaheim Electronics often did in UC.) however, because PLANT/ZAFT was independent and manufactured their own weapons, there was less profit from war with them, hence a reason to eliminate the Coordinators.  Remember, the situation on Earth is not entirely stable.  You had the Atlantic Federation, and Eurasian Federation, which are implied to have an uneasy truce at best, and are rivals for the top spot in the Earth Alliance.  There are also several smaller powers in the Earth Alliance, some of which are puppets of larger powers, and could be used to carry on proxy wars.  The only thing that really bound the Earth Alliance together was their opposition of PLANT/ZAFT, and the Eurasian Federation didn't seem to be entirely anti-Coordinator, as they hired many Coordinators as mercenaries.  It's possible with ZAFT out of the way, the Alliance would have disintegrated and wars would have broken out on Earth, but with ZAFT being generally technologically superior in terms of military, they were forced to maintain their truce.  With that truce over, LOGOS would likely influence and supply wars and skirmishes by both sides, generating constant profits.  LOGOS has no endgame, the intention is that the game was never to end.

      Then you have ORB.  At the time of Destiny, Orb was more or less controlled by the Seirans, who were hinted, if not confirmed to be members of LOGOS.  Again, same situation as above.

      As for Blue Cosmos, one theory is that it was little more than a terrorist arm of LOGOS.  While many members were driven by a legitimate hatred of Coordinators, some members may have been agents of LOGOS who were inserted to spur on acts of violence and create conflicts.  Blue Cosmos' endgame probably was the extermination of Coordinators.  I could be wrong, but I wonder if Blue Cosmos was based partly on the radical right-wing groups that began popping up in the US after 9/11, and made threats and occasionally acts of violence against abortion clinics and other places they considered to be "abominations".  I may be off, since Gundam is a Japanese series, but the similarities are a bit peculiar.

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    • Thanks for replying. I guess it is a bit of a wild card today, but Seed is in a possible future of ours, so anything could be possible when things are off Earth and such. I'm not sure Destiny was too bad, it just wasn't presented greatly enough. Some people on TV Tropes actually say that Blue Cosmos is like the KKK and Nazis mixed together. Perhaps it's possible that LOGOS had plans to keep the Alliance intact in order to achieve Djibril's goal of dominating the world while using excuses like proper exploration of space and careful distribution of PLANT technology. I actually talked with Wing Zero Alpha on our fanfiction.net accounts that the original plan of LOGOS/Blue Cosmos that the initial plan was to be patient and be ready to rebuild and reorganize the world to their tastes after the Coordinators bite the dust. But then with impatient leaders like the jealous Muruta and the over-killing Djibril things got out of hand very quickly.

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    • No problem.  I love having discussions on topics that bring up things outside the box.  As for SEED Destiny, it's your call on whether it was bad or not, but I consider it bad in the original series' corner when most people feel Super Robot Wars Z did a better job telling SEED Destiny's story and bringing out the qualities of the characters than SEED Destiny actually did.  Personally I've played SRWZ and watched SEED Destiny twice, and I have to agree, it's a lot more enjoyable in SRWZ.

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    • How so? All I know of Destiny in an SRW game is that in K, Cagalli was portrayed effective enough to spare Meer and Yuna.

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    • A lot of it has to do with the portrayal of Shinn Asuka.  In SEED Destiny, because of the shift back to Kira and Athrun as main characters in the second half, Shinn ends up just coming across as an annoying, whiny, dumb kid who does what he's told without question, even when he's clearly being manipulated.  In Z, they are able to keep more focus on him, and his interactions with the other characters develop him more into a worthwhile hero, with more positive traits.  Kenichi Suzumura, Shinn's voice actor, has gone on record saying this, check the SEED Destiny page trivia.  Kira even ends up being more interesting in Z with his interactions with the cast.  Athrun didn't really change much, but Athrun was probably the character who was written best out of the main 3 in the original series, and I always thought he was more interesting than Kira.

      But really, look into the history of SEED Destiny and the issues that came across when writing it.  The director and writer were husband and wife.  That led to a lot of missed deadlines and subpar writing, also due to the fact that the writer was suffering from serious illness during production.

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    • Well, in Shinn's defense, he went through a lot of grief and was apparentLy based on Kamille and Anakiin Skywalker from Star Wars. Sometimes, a product's effectiveness depends on how well it's managed. If and when I get to Destiny in my writing, I'll probably keep Shinn as a confused and broken hearted sort of character, but still conflicted enough to look sympathetic and actually tries to think about his actions and make up for them in case things go from bad to worse. A good example of such a guy in emotional pain I think would be Zinnerman from Unicorn in episode six. It looked so heart wrenching to me. Maybe some more information about those games would be useful on this wiki. I looked that there was a few Super Robot Wars wikis here and there, but they are either incomplete or too fan made for accuracy.

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    • The management behind SEED Destiny definitely had a lot to do with it's effectiveness.  It was poorly managed, and that showed in the sloppy writing, and number of recap episodes.  It tries to be the Zeta of SEED, and while the intention was obvious, as we have so many things in common with Zeta, the quality is not even close to either Zeta or SEED.  They barely even changed the plot of SEED, just changed which side started out as "good" and eventually the truly "good" side is a third party.

      Kamille was far more interesting and likable than Shinn.  The basing of Shinn off Kamille was quite obvious from the get go, and the fact that he is basically a crappy Kamille made Destiny that much less enjoyable for me.  Many other Gundam protagonists have experienced the level of grief Shinn has, losing one or both parents, and occasionally siblings.  Kamille is the most obvious example.  Even before his parents death, his homelife was a wreck, and he still ends up more well adjusted than Shinn.  At least Shinn had a family that was caring and loving.  Judau is an orphan, who believes about halfway through the series that his sister is dead, and doesn't find out until the very end that she isn't.  Char Aznable has seen plenty of tragedy with his family and loved ones, as has Amuro Ray.  Domon Kasshu's story is actually quite sad, and he ends up effectively killing his own brother, even after he realizes that he isn't truly evil.  Both Lockon Stratos' saw their entire family killed, and Setsuna killed his own parents.  And then there's Uso Ewin.  My god, does that kid have it rough.  He's basically abandoned by his parents, and then finally meets back up with them, only to have them both killed, his mother especially gruesomely.  Almost everyone he knows ends up getting killed, his crush (Katejina) figuratively and literally stabs him in the back, and he actually personally meets or befriends some of the people he kills, and deals with that multiple times.  To top it all off, he's a mere 13 years old.  

      Tragedy is pretty much synonymous with Gundam, but where most of the protagonists tend to learn and grow stronger from tragedy, Shinn really doesn't learn anything or grow as a character in Destiny, at the end, he's the same whiny, angsty little boy he is in the beginning.  I understand characters like that, and people like that exist, and maybe something could have been done with him, but shifting the focus back to Kira and Athrun for that second half of Destiny pretty much killed that.  In SRWZ he evolves into a true hero, comes to terms with his past, and fights for the himself and his friends, instead of a politician who is obviously just telling him what he wants to hear.

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    • Crazy.

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    • One reason SRW Z's Shinn come off as better character (unless you pick ZAFT route) is that he actually got chaarcter development which I wonder if it was adapted from scrap they picked up from GSD cutting room's floor.

      Basically, when Talia give her crews the choice to either go back to ZAFT or stay with Z Numbers. Rey choose to go back, but Shinn choose to remain with Z Numbers (and Luna decide she will follow Shinn regardless of his choice) and point out that he just can't trust Gil anymore (and he actually crying when Rey tell him they're nolonger friends and he will kill Shinn the next time they meet). When Shinn aboard Argama, he find Kamille wait for him with worry expression, and he assure him the he's fine. He doesn't know if it's right choice or nor, but this's his own decision and he'll face whatever consequences it will bring. Athrun indeed praise him for this, note that with such determination it's no surprise he can beat both him and Kira.

      Most important, when he arrange his room he remember that his cellphone is still on Minerva. But he tell "Mayu" that it's ok, it's time for him to move on.

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    • I see.

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    • And beyond that, later in the game, it is possible to even have Shinn convince Rey Za Burrel to join Z Numbers/ZEUTH with the Legend Gundam.

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    • I've been editing and posting Gundam videos for sometime, and from looking at episodes 5, 38, and 40, I think it's safe to say that the men of LOGOS other than Djibril were a bit conflicted about the Coordinators. Sure they mentioned Blue Cosmos' motto and seemed sincere about it, but at Heaven's Base, the surviving members were convinced that all Durandal would do is take their place followed by Unato Ema Seiran sweating and almost looked like he was working reluctantly with Djibril. Yuna Roma Seiran however mentioned during the Heaven's Base attack that in the end, it would be best to stick with the Earth Alliance than get on it's bad side. While the Alliance is implied to not be as regimented as the Earth Federations or most of the other Alliances, I don't think it's impossible to see them continue through, even with no Coordinators, to ensure Mankind's survival on Earth and in Space.

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    • A FANDOM user
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