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  • Shinn did not beat kira/freedom "Single handed". he had constant help from minerva and zaft forces. Accuracy of the story is important.

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    • What do you mean "constant help"? The ZAFT forces didn't exactly help him, since Kira easily wiped the floor with them before Impulse joined the fight. The only real help Shinn got was from Minerva launching extra Sillhouette packs, it didn't even really intervene directly in the fight.

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    • Well, I agree that it isn't "single handed" because that victory come from Shinn heavily study on Freedom and Kira's style, as well as being crafty enough to push Impulse's fighting ability beyond its design. But he doesn't has constant help either. Accuracy of the story is important.

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    • Just because he fought smart for once doesn't change the fact that he still beat the Freedom one-on-one, with zero direct offensive interference from any other party. Thus, "single-handed" still describes what happened accurately. 

      As for the Minerva and other forces, their attacks were focused on the Archangel for the most part until the Impulse showed up, and exclusively once it did.

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    • Good point.

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    • Didn't Shinn beat Kira piloting Freedom using Impulse? I mean the fight did end with the Excaliber impaling Freedom's lower torso and Freedom blowing up.

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    • I'd like to point out that the ONLY reason Shinn beat Kira was due to the Impulse. Without the Core Block System that allowed him to replace damaged modules, he'd have lost when Kira took off the left arm and head when he got in close. And he also would have been cut in half when Kira did go for a cockpit shot with his beam saber. So, it took a Mobile Suit that could separate and replace damaged sections, studying all combat footage of the Freedom the Minerva had AND Kira being off his game in order to take him out... Yeah, it was not one on one.

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    • Eh, study or not. Those sounds like emotional excuses. Shinn can receive all the help he can get during preparation but in the actual fight it was a one on one. Impulse has greater tactical advantages over Freedom is obvious.

      Freedom only had 1 thing better than Impulse, which is a very long combat operational duration running on a core due to the presence of an incredibly weak Nuclear Reactor. The rest of the Freedom's hardwares was probably best of technology from 2 years ago.

      Impulse had limited operation time as it was running on cells. Impulse hardwares are much newer and better.

      Freedom can operate at 100% performance of 1000 max for a month non-stop on paper, Impulse probably can operate at 100% performance of 2000 max for maybe 30 minutes on paper.

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    • ...I'm pretty sure one-on-one is very obvious words. Are you saying that if a boxer win against his opponent because he study his style first, it won't count as one-on-one?

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    • Examples coming from the battle itself... emotional excuses? Also, where was Shinn getting the replacements for his damaged parts, as well as the Sword Silhouette Flyer he called in, if not from the Minerva? This wasn't some honorable duel they had been fighting, it was a pitched battle to destroy the Archangel. That makes it not a one on one by default.

      Also, just going by the battle itself, the Impulse may have newer hardware but it is not shown to be better. At best, I'd say they are equal.

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    • Now that make more sense. Although I think it's unfair statement. Impulse was made from start to be worked with Minerva. Everything about it - Core Block, Silhouette, energy beam transfer - it's only at full strength with support. So completely remove it from Minerva, and you might even ask Shinn to fight Kira in a Windam (AKA CE Leo). Freedom, on other hand, is fully standalone unit. And technically still superior to any single form of Impulse (which is the point of that battle, Shinn bring Impulse's power beyond its vanilla design while Kira fight just like how Shinn predict).

      My point on the matter is, while opinion vary if it's wasy win or not, Shinn deserve a respect in that victory.

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    • Seriously what is so difficult about this?

      In terms of career records, Shinn was indeed the one who takes down Freedom using Impulse. 

      Freedom was overpowering everyone else using newer mobile suits, Shinn succeeded at beating an overpowering foe. That deserves military decoration for defeating a foe that no one else in his army were able to accomplish.

      I don't think we were talking about skills and pilot abilities that is why I left those factors out. 

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    • It was a military victory, and Shinn did shoot down the Freedom.  His record would show this as a confirmed MS kill for Shinn, and a victory for ZAFT and the Minerva.  Shinn's strategy of analyzing the Freedom's tactics, and using the equipment they had on hand to defeat an arguably superior enemy, and the execution of said strategy by his fellow soldiers would be rewarded, which is probably one of the reasons they were promoted to FAITH, as well as being rewarded with a new model mobile suit to pilot.  It would speak well of Shinn's understanding of combat tactics, and ability to analyze his opponents strategies, and coming up with effective countermeasures against them.

      Unfortunately, this scenario speaks further to the incredibly poor production of SEED Destiny, because while here, Shinn is at his best, using complex strategy and analysis to defeat his opponent, by the end of the series, he is reduced to little more than an angry attack dog who will bite anything his master commands him to, and nearly kills his own girlfriend because of his rage and can't even land a single hit on his opponent.

      Also, Shinn explicitly states that the Freedom is more powerful than the Impulse.  Where do you get that the Freedom has a weak nuclear reactor?  It has an output of over 8800 kW, putting it above a majority of mobile suits in the metaverse.  The second stage suits are all relatively similar in performance, and as we see, the Saviour is easily defeated by the Freedom, and the Chaos is taken down by a team of 3 Murasames.  Neo in his Windam is able to fight on nearly equal footing with the Second Stage suits, but can't last very long against the Freedom.  The Impulse may have more advanced hardware, and is more energy efficient than the Freedom, but because of its limited power supply, it cannot match the performance.  It's like comparing a new Toyota Prius to a Ferrari F40.  The Prius is technologically superior in nearly everyway, but it will never out perform the F40 in anything other than efficiency despite the Ferrari being 30 years old.

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    • Poor production? Shinn becoming nothing more than a berzerker was as intended. He wasn't meant to become a hero, not while Durandal and Ray were there to manipulate his deep seated rage and trauma. In other words, THEY DID NOT WANT HIM TO GET BETTER!

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    • Hero can be manipulated, it isn't uncommon in fiction.

      To be "true hero" is essence, but simply be "hero" is just status.

      One can be better and still easy to manipulated. Your logic is off again.

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    • Shinn's study of Freedom's fighting tactics is tactical not strategic. In a tactical view, the Freedom vs Impulse was a combined effort.

      Rey's tactics and Shinn's execution. In a battle record it was all Shinn because Shinn was the one who executed the tactics.

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    • Let me rephrase it then. Shinn is a good kid under the thumb of Durandal. So long as he is under Durandal and friends with Rey, he is not going to be the character many fans desired him to be. This was intentional and obvious from the start.

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    • Diseasicon wrote:

      Also, Shinn explicitly states that the Freedom is more powerful than the Impulse.  Where do you get that the Freedom has a weak nuclear reactor?  It has an output of over 8800 kW, putting it above a majority of mobile suits in the metaverse.  The second stage suits are all relatively similar in performance, and as we see, the Saviour is easily defeated by the Freedom, and the Chaos is taken down by a team of 3 Murasames.  Neo in his Windam is able to fight on nearly equal footing with the Second Stage suits, but can't last very long against the Freedom.  The Impulse may have more advanced hardware, and is more energy efficient than the Freedom, but because of its limited power supply, it cannot match the performance.  It's like comparing a new Toyota Prius to a Ferrari F40.  The Prius is technologically superior in nearly everyway, but it will never out perform the F40 in anything other than efficiency despite the Ferrari being 30 years old.

      If you want to solely compare performance. Let's compare the Impulse silhouette that has the same combat orientation as Freedom. Blast Impulse.

      Freedom has 2 Beam Cannons, 2 Railguns, 1 Beam Rifle, 2 Beam Sabers, 1 Shield, machine guns on its head, Phase Shift Armor and the wing designs on its back to aid its agility.

      Blast Impulse has 2 Beam Cannons, 2x4 Homing Missile Pods, 2 Railguns, 1 Beam Rifle, 1 Shield, machine guns on its head, 2 Beam Trident and Variable Phase Shift Armor.

      On top of being superior in terms of firepower and melee combat, Impulse uses newer versions of weapons. 

      More power = greater performance is true only to a small extend. 

      Ferrari and F40 doesn't use nuclear reactors. Let's compare something that uses REAL Nuclear Reactors.

      X6-Convair was the final form of Nuclear powered bombers from the Convair series. I will compare the Convair B-36 before adding nuclear powered, the Convair X-6 that possess nuclear power and the YB-60 Convair that took away Nuclear power because the newer engines doesn't work well with nuclear. 

      Convair B-36

      Max Weapon weight carried: 1.8 tonnes including weapons.

      Top speed: approx 420 miles per hour.

      Cruising Speed: approx. 270 mph

      Power Source: Electric Turbojet Engines

      Operation time: 33 hours tops

      Top Altitude: 40,000 feet or 12,200 meters.

      X6-Convair

      Max Weapon weight carried: 0.6 tonnes  

      Top Speed: Approx. 390 miles per hour

      Cruise Speed: approx: 290 mph

      Power source: Nuclear powered Turbojet Engines.

      Operation time: Infinite on Theory, 1 week/168 hrs in reality as the reactors needs maintenance

      Top Altitude: 40,000 feet or 12,200 meters

      Convair YB-60 

      Max weapon weight carried: Roughly 3 tonnes

      Top speed: Approx. 510 mph

      Cruise Speed: Approx. 375 mph

      Power Source: Newer Electric Turbojet Engines that doesn't work properly with a nuclear reactor as the same engine drops its top speed and cruise speed to 328 mph top speed and 155 mph cruise speed when operating together with a nuclear reactor.

      Operation Time: Roughly 48 hours

      Top Altitude: Approx. 42,000 feet.

      It became even more apparent about 2 years later, an even more powerful and superior bomber was created that vastly outclasses YB-60 in every category and is not nuclear powered as well was about 3 times superior than X6-Convair in every category except the amount of weapons it can carry is about 1000 times godly superior and it is not powered by nuclear reactor.

      As you can see, not everything is so clear cut that "Nuclear = Better" Somethings are not set to perform properly under nuclear. It is not out of question that Freedom may have more power than Impulse, Impulse's performance based on plain numbers that people can see... is superior and by a noticeable amount.

      Impulse has a more sophiscated design, can carry more ranged weapons under ranged combat settings such as Blast Impulse and is capable of equipping itself with other Silhouette's equipment making Impulse's performance level higher. The only thing Freedom has is longer operation duration.

      The gap can easily be...

      Impulse performance 500~3000

      Impulse peak performance = 10 minutes

      Freedom Performance: 500 to 1000

      Freedom peak performance: 1 week

      ^ can easily be true and most likely true.

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    • Another thing I mentioned that I shouldn't even need to explain. I was stating Freedom's nuclear reactor was extremely weak COMPARED TO OTHER NUCLEAR REACTORS. I wasn't comparing with Impulse's batteries.

      Nuclear Reactors in general has the maximum capacity of 500 to 6000 mW (500,000 kW to 6,000,000 kW). Compared to Freedom's measely 8826 kW, Freedom's reactor is very weak compared to them.

      Even if you want to play favorites and be unfair to Modular Reactors that are smaller than Freedom/Justice's Nuclear Reactors seen during Gundam Seed, (avg modular reactors are 1/2 to 2/3 of the reactor seen on the back of Justice)

      Let's be a biased fanboy and bully the modular reactors even though they didn't do anything to you. Modular Reactors maximum capacity ranges between 30 to 300 mW. Oh wait, it is superior than the pathetic excuse you called Ultracompact Nuclear Reactor used by Freedom and by a massive margin.

      To top it off, Modular Reactors are designed solely with safety and stability in mind. Meaning they can maintain higher percent of capacity for much longer durations than older Nuclear Reactors.

      That is 30,000 kW to 300,000 kW over a longer period of time vs pathetic 8826 kW over a shorter period of time. Freedom's nuclear reactor is so weak and useless it should just go and die and hope it reincarnates into a more productive equipment in the next life.

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    • Newer version of weapons designed to be used with more limited power source. That's big factor, simply being newer doesn't mean they have to be more powerful, they might have better enrgy-efficiency, but we don't know for sure. Also note that the missile can't be used alongside Kerberos, and Kerberos also need both hands to hold them while using it. So if someone try to mimic Hi-MAT Full Burst with Blast Impulse it will be reduce to just Deluge and Kerberos (and breasts vulcan, if you're insist). In fact, power consumption is clearly the second most important thing when they design Blast impulse (after firepower), the VPS use the least power in this mode. And Blast impulse can't hold candle to Freedom when it come to mobility.

      Again, counting all three forms Impulse has overall higher combat ability. But those ability spread in all three forms, and individual form is inferior to Freedom. Credit still goes to Shinn for break that limit.

      And what's the point of comparing Freedom to other nuclear-powered MS? Shinn only has Impulse then. Don't try to make it more confusing by add something irrelevant.

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    • YinyangElementofduality wrote:
      Another thing I mentioned that I shouldn't even need to explain. I was stating Freedom's nuclear reactor was extremely weak COMPARED TO OTHER NUCLEAR REACTORS. I wasn't comparing with Impulse's batteries.

      Nuclear Reactors in general has the maximum capacity of 500 to 6000 mW (500,000 kW to 6,000,000 kW). Compared to Freedom's measely 8826 kW, Freedom's reactor is very weak compared to them.

      Even if you want to play favorites and be unfair to Modular Reactors that are smaller than Freedom/Justice's Nuclear Reactors seen during Gundam Seed, (avg modular reactors are 1/2 to 2/3 of the reactor seen on the back of Justice)

      Let's be a biased fanboy and bully the modular reactors even though they didn't do anything to you. Modular Reactors maximum capacity ranges between 30 to 300 mW. Oh wait, it is superior than the pathetic excuse you called Ultracompact Nuclear Reactor used by Freedom and by a massive margin.

      To top it off, Modular Reactors are designed solely with safety and stability in mind. Meaning they can maintain higher percent of capacity for much longer durations than older Nuclear Reactors.

      That is 30,000 kW to 300,000 kW over a longer period of time vs pathetic 8826 kW over a shorter period of time. Freedom's nuclear reactor is so weak and useless it should just go and die and hope it reincarnates into a more productive equipment in the next life.

      Gundam is fiction.  While the output of the reactor is small compared to an actual nuclear reactor, that is irrelevant.  While it may not be scientifically accurate, it has to be accepted in the confines of the material.  What is relevant is what we are shown and told in story.

      I'm comparing two cars, one designed for efficiency and the other for performance.  That is the difference between the Impulse and Freedom.  The Impulse, due to using a battery, must balance performance and efficiency.  The Freedom, due to having a nuclear power source, which in this timeline, means nearly unlimited energy, has no need to worry about efficiency.   The whole point of CE is that battery power in any form is not ideal for any mobile suit, but because of either neutron jammers or treaty restrictions, a nuclear reactor cannot be used.

      The Convair used technology from the 1940's, which clearly wasn't up to task.  It's entirely possible that in the future, some sort of bomber could be built that would be far more effective using nuclear power than current day aircraft.  CE technology is leaps and bounds beyond what we have even now.

      How do I know the Freedom has higher performance figures than the Impulse?  Because Shinn specifically says so.  Your argument of the Impulse having higher performance is null, on the simple fact that Shinn states that the Freedom is the most powerful suit currently in existence.  The Impulse has different packs for different situations.  The Force Silhouette is a high mobility pack, Blast excels at ranged combat, while Sword excels in close combat.  The Blast Impulse may have slightly higher overall firepower than the Freedom, but it clearly lacks in mobility.  Seeing as the Freedom is shown to have greater mobility than even the Saviour, which is specifically built for atmospheric combat, the Impulse even in Force setup, at best, has equal mobility.  In any configuration where the Impulse would have any combat advantage over Freedom, like Sword or Blast, it would have such a disadvantage in mobility that Shinn's strategy would have been useless.

      When do we actually see the reactor to any of the CE suits?  We never do.  All we know is it's located somewhere inside the mobile suit, not at all necessarily part of the backpack, as reactors in MS generally are not.  We have no idea the actual size of the reactor.  It could take up a majority of any body part, or just a small section measuring only a few cubic feet.  We don't see it, we don't know what it looks like.  All we know is that in Cosmic Era, there is no battery capable of producing and sustaining the energy that a nuclear reactor is.

      I think it's pretty obvious who is being a fanboy.  I'm going with things that were stated by the show or media.  Shinn outright stating that the Freedom is the most powerful suit around.  Multiple examples of the Freedom outclassing and overwhelming suits similar in performance to Impulse, regardless of its age.  You are going with things that you think might be possible.

      Yes, Shinn shot down a superior enemy.  I'm not denying that.  He used what he knew about his opponent and the tools he had at his disposal.  He earned the kill which probably helped him secure his promotion into FAITH.

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    • Kuruni wrote:
      Newer version of weapons designed to be used with more limited power source. That's big factor, simply being newer doesn't mean they have to be more powerful, they might have better enrgy-efficiency, but we don't know for sure. Also note that the missile can't be used alongside Kerberos, and Kerberos also need both hands to hold them while using it. So if someone try to mimic Hi-MAT Full Burst with Blast Impulse it will be reduce to just Deluge and Kerberos (and breasts vulcan, if you're insist). In fact, power consumption is clearly the second most important thing when they design Blast impulse (after firepower), the VPS use the least power in this mode. And Blast impulse can't hold candle to Freedom when it come to mobility.

      Again, counting all three forms Impulse has overall higher combat ability. But those ability spread in all three forms, and individual form is inferior to Freedom. Credit still goes to Shinn for break that limit.

      And what's the point of comparing Freedom to other nuclear-powered MS? Shinn only has Impulse then. Don't try to make it more confusing by add something irrelevant.

      I am not comparing Freedom with other nuclear powered MS. I am stating the performance level of the Freedom's nuclear reactor with average nuclear reactors and the smaller Modular Reactors from real world. To prove that it is weak as far as nuclear reactors goes.

      Where was it confirmed that Blast Impulse VPS armor settings is the weakest? There was no official statement differentiating their strength, there is only visual differences. That is what is call irrelevant.

      Also there is no statement saying Blast Impulse cannot mount its Railcannons on its shoulders and fire along side its Beam Cannons. 

      I gave an example that is not limited to anime but also real world to prove that nuclear doesn't always means it is better. Non-Nuclear powered machines have been known to outclass nuclear powered machines.

      Just because you switch to using a nuclear reactor to provide the electricity, doesn't mean the electricity it produces is superior, in fact due to a nuclear reactor's absurd output, many times nuclear powered machines have a lot of energy that went to waste causing unnecessary burden on the vehicles or craft. This is reality. Not anime.

      Back to Anime, performance I am talking about excludes the pilots. I am solely using unbiased fair and just analysis of the options the mobile suits possess.

      Blast Impulse always have the option to mimick HiMAT as the only weapon restricted was the missile launchers. Even then, carrying 2 missile launcher pods in addition to 2 Beam Cannons and 2 Railcannons makes Blast Impulse superior on paper.

      Freedom has higher tactical ranged combat abilities, as with Strike Freedom compared to Impulse and then Destiny Gundam. In terms of plain combat abilities, Impulse actually takes the cake.

      Reality: You're practically saying X6-Convair MUST BE Superior than YB-60 Convair. The reason being: Just because YB-60 Convair is designed being newer more energy efficient which it is about 10 times more energy efficient than X6-Convair, doesn't mean YB-60 Convair is better than X6-Convair.

      YB-60 Convair beats X6-Convair in every conceivable combat category. The NON-NUCLEAR powered versions. B-52 created on the same time as YB-60 Convair maybe slightly stronger than YB-60, it also outclasses X6-Convair. That is two Bombers outclassing the X6-Convair.

      YB-60 is very easy to explain, the additional burden the excessive energy generated by the Nuclear Reactors placed unwanted burden on the 8 turbojet Engines in X6-Convair, YB-60's performance superiority was due to the burden being lifted.

      B-52 is superior because of better design in both combat capabilities as a bomber and in energy efficiency. It is probably 1000 times more efficient and the burden on the Convair series were practically non-existent in B-52. Making it the winner of the two bomber series.

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    • I am not comparing Freedom with other nuclear powered MS. I am stating the performance level of the Freedom's nuclear reactor with average nuclear reactors and the smaller Modular Reactors from real world. To prove that it is weak as far as nuclear reactors goes.

      Still irrelevant, in VS battle they don't have to beat everyone, they simply have to beat the opponent. In CE verse, nuclear reactor = unlimited energy supply. It's still big advantage compare to battery's limit supply like Impulse's.

      Where was it confirmed that Blast Impulse VPS armor settings is the weakest? There was no official statement differentiating their strength, there is only visual differences. That is what is call irrelevant.

      Well, not official (as in "something happen on screen" only). But in SD Gundam G Generation World, that's how Impulse VPS work. Blast use least power for less damage reduction.

      Also there is no statement saying Blast Impulse cannot mount its Railcannons on its shoulders and fire along side its Beam Cannons.

      I said it can't use missile. Nice to know you don't even read my post.

      Blast Impulse always have the option to mimick HiMAT as the only weapon restricted was the missile launchers.

      HiMAT stand for High Mobility Aerial Tactics. So no, that's something Blast Impluse can't do, it's least maneuver of the three forms. And as note, since it need both hands to use Kerberos, it can't use beam rifle either. So at very least Freedom has superior focus firepower, even if a little.

      Freedom has higher tactical ranged combat abilities, as with Strike Freedom compared to Impulse and then Destiny Gundam. In terms of plain combat abilities, Impulse actually takes the cake.

      No. Force Impulse may match Freedom in mobility, but has inferior weapons. Sword Impulse has superior melee weapon, but inferior in range and mobility. Blast may match it in firepower, but totally outclass in mobility. Again, each of its single form is inferior to Freedom.

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    • Games are not a reliable source unless it was backed by official statements or sources reason being games requires balancing gameplay, not following the lore.

      As Gundam Seed and Seed Destiny made it a point to reflect how fast technology is improving, which is why within a span of 3 years, they have a total of 4 generations of weaponry coming out at a rapid pace, time between each Gen being within 3 to 6 months' time and each gen outclassing the previous one. 

      That is why you see the arms race that persists through to Seed Destiny even though they had quite a long period of peace.

      Strike was made to outclass Ginns, as with Strike Daggers, GuAIZ was made to outperform Strike and Strike Daggers, GuAIZ-R was GuAIZ made even better for Zaft to stay ahead of the arms race, Freedom, Justice, Raider, Calamity and Forbidden to outclass everything during their time and Providence to surpass all of them. 

      Skipping forward to start of Destiny people have Zaku, later Windams outclassing GuAIZ-R by a huge margin and newer experimental units such as Impulse, Savior, Chaos, Gaia etc to outperform these mobile suits.

      You seem to be completely lacking to the implication to my statement that Freedom is a more tactical weapon than Impulse. Saying it is more tactical already covered the HiMAT.

      Here's a brief rundown to the military terms.

      Tactical ability refers to the asset's designed ability to instantaneously disrupt, take on/down parts or entire enemy forces ability to wage war in the battlefield.

      HiMAT is a tactical ability as it allows the war machine to simultaneously strike multiple targets rapidly thus disrupting the enemy army or forces combat ability in the battlefield. In this sense I already stated what you explained. 

      Freedom is more tactical. However, as in terms of performance on a one on one situation or field assault situation, Freedom's war potential is not that much higher than Blast Impulse.

      Freedom's maximum striking power in ranged is 2 Beam Cannons, 2 Railguns, 1 Beam Rifle. Freedom's maximum close quarter combat power is 2 Beam Sabers or a doublesaber.

      Blast Impulse's maximum striking power in ranged is 2 Beam Cannons, 2 Railcannons and 1 Beam Rifle. Blast Impulse is also in possession of 2 Missile launching pods giving it a slight edge in terms of maximum weapons carried.

      Blast Impulse maximum striking power in close combat is also 2 Beam Javelins.

      In terms of speed and armor, as it was from games and games needs to keep the gameplay balanced and not always staying true to storyline, unless it is supported by official sources which it wasn't. I prefer to see the Impulse's performance on Screen. Which I've seen Blast Impulse dashing at the same speed and covering the same distance as Freedom in early Seed Destiny.

      Why does my pointing out that Blast Impulse is capable of using its Railcannons and Beam Cannons together means it can "mimick HiMAT I said mimick, I didn't say it can do a HiMAT tactical strike on multiple enemy targets on field. 

      Mimick as in using 2 Beam Cannons, 2 Railcannons and 1 Beam Rifle at the same time. Accusing that I didn't even read your post when I wasn't saying using the missile launcher pods at all. 

      The Opening sequence of Gundam Seed Destiny even showed Blast Impulse using the missile launchers first then fired the 2 Beam Cannons and 2 Railcannons simultaneously. The angle made it looked like only the Beam Cannons fired but if you look carefully, there were two smaller lines indicating that the Railcannons can fire simultaneously with the Beam Cannons.

      Shinn and Rey's conversation did not once states that Freedom has higher performance, they were saying how quick and accurate the Freedom's pilot was at using Freedom and its weapons. Shinn specifically states that Freedom's power was greater than Impulse. Much like Kira states it had more power than Strike.

      Power in that sense means amount of energy consumed within each time unit. It just means that Freedom consumes more energy per second than Impulse which is understandable. Normally if they are same generation war machines, the one that can afford to consume more energy usually have higher performance, things are blurred if there is at least a 6 months gap between the two's production. Which the gap between Freedom and Impulse was at least one and half year apart. That is practically 3 gens gap, not only that they are both designed during their time as the most advanced trump card for their military.

      In the real world's comparison, the X6-Convair consumes more energy than YB-60 Convair too. YB-60 Convair still outperforms X6-Convair, the nuclear powered one. YB-60 Convair is about 1 generation ahead of X6-Convair seeing there's around 6 months gap between the last Convair built and the first YB-60 Convair.

      That said, Shinn only confirms that at Freedom consumes more energy than Impulse. Its performance will undoubtedly be higher if they are same generation. But with about 3 generations or more apart gap between Freedom and Impulse, the performance difference will be blurred, most likely Impulse can actually outperform Freedom in every Silhouette for a brief period of time.

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    • Ok. After read your post again, I think you have a point. A bit opinion-heavy, but it's reasonable opinion.

      As far as official info available, it's note that on [MS Encyclopedia video] that Impulse's VPS energy usage is changed to match the equipments. But yes, there's indeed no specific statement that Blast use least energy for armor that I can find.

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    • Is it so hard to swallow that even if you use a nuclear reactor to support 10 older engines, it will not push above the hardware's performance cap without causing harm to the older hardwares

      Gundam Seed to GSD, they have been showing this. Raider, Calamity and Forbidden were same generation mobile suits as Freedom and Justice except they were powered by Batteries. Even then they can keep up with Freedom and Justice as long as they have power left.

      It really isn't hard to believe that 2 years later, battery powered mobile suits would have newer, more advanced hardwares that can allow them to operate at equal or higher performance than an older nuclear powered model. 

      There is even real life example of X6-Convair and YB-60 Convair that non-nuclear outperforms nuclear powered craft.

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    • On a sidenote: Deuterion Energy Transfer System's usage is not very practical.

      I think it is better to just load the Silhouette Packs, Chest Flyer and Leg Flyer with Batteries. It'll double or triple Impulse's energy supply. Hell they can make less numerous but more powerful Impulse.

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    • Our forum has edit function, use it.

      And that's why I said it's opinion heavy, you speculate that is a big leap in hardware. (copy and paste) There was no official statement differentiating their strength.

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    • I'm not talking about the Convair anymore, and I never said I can't accept that something with non-nuclear power can have higher performance than something nuclear powered.  However, the anime isn't real life.  Despite how low the output of the Freedom might be compared to real life nuclear reactors, in universe, it is still considered powerful.  In Cosmic Era, there is no battery that can keep up with even the weakest nuclear reactor.  The only reason batteries are used in mobile suits are because of the neutron jammers.  When the neutron jammer canceller is developed, nuclear power is introduced to mobile suits, and thus we have suits like the Providence, Freedom and Justice which have great mobility, overwhelming firepower, strong armor, and long operating time, where any battery powered suit had to compromise.

      The second stage series of suits are built using batteries because the treaty following the end of the First Bloody Valentine war banned the use of nuclear reactors in mobile suits.  Yes, the technology did get better, the Force Impulse is able to at least keep up with the Freedom, while none of the battery powered suits in SEED were able to keep up with Freedom, Providence or Justice.

      The Calamity, Forbidden and Raider have a few things that allow them to perform on a level slightly higher than the initial G-Project suits.  Most notable is the Trans-Phase Armor, which only powers up at the point of impact, considerably reducing the amount of power used during normal operation.  Also, with those suits, the operation time is usually limited by the pilots, before the battery runs out.  By the time the suits begin to run out of power in the final battle, the pilots have been fighting longer than usual, and are experience extreme withdrawal symptoms from their combat drugs.  Even with that, the suits are still shown to be below the Freedom or Justice in terms of performance, but when all three attack in tandem, they are able to overwhelm them.

      Also, the Deuterion Energy Transfer System was designed to work with all of the Second Stage suits.  Yes, building more Silhouettes may have been more practical, but would have been far less cost efficient, and would have provided no benefit to the other four suits.  The Chaos, Abyss, Gaia and Saviour cannot use the Silhouettes, thus the Deuterion Energy Transfer System is necessary.  With Silhouettes, you have to spend the extra resources to build them.  You need space to store them and launch them, and even then, they run the risk of being shot down upon being launched, or an enemy might even be able to use the weaponry if they were to capture one in the field before the Impulse could get it.  The Beam system eliminates all of these drawbacks.  It requires no additional space other than the mechanism to fire it.  It requires no additional cost outside of routine maintenance.  If an enemy mobile suit were to intercept the beam, it would provide no advantage unless the suit also had the Deuterion Energy Transfer System.

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    • Probaly worth to note that according to Courtney Heironimus's description of Impulse system (if they ever perfect it), with DRAGOON flyer (and likely Chaos, Abyss, and Gaia Silhouette), then Impulse won't need Minerva anymore. No specific description of how they will add extra energy though.

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    • I didn't say build more Silhouettes. I said instead of having 1 Battery for Impulse Gundam possibly in the Silhouette, I said to load the Chest Flyer, Leg Flyer and Silhouette Packs with a Battery each. That is having 3X more Batteries meaning about 3X more energy supply.

      The coincidence here Kuruni is that I actually came up with this after reading about Courtney Heironimus idea. This is what I get from his statement.

      His idea is to use Dragoon System on the Impulse's parts swapping system aka the Flyers, which will be called Dragoon Flyer. This is setting up Impulse in such a way that it has multiple Silhouettes following Impulse into battle so Impulse can instantly swap Silhouettes in battle. That is similar to my idea as in having multiple batteries supporting Impulse in Battle. 

      I also find there are a few major problems with this system.

      Number 1. Dragoon System has a reputation of being energy consuming, i believe second to the famous Voiture Lumiere Propulsion. 

      Number 2. Who is going to stop sharpshooters from taking down the Dragoons when the Impulse is switching Silhouettes

      Number 3. Building an original Impulse Silhouette that uses Nuclear Reactors is more simple.

      Having nuclear with Impulse's design needs some changes but it will be easy to double Impulse level. With Battery they can give Blast Impulse 2 Beam Cannons, 2 Railguns, 2 beam tridents, 2 missiles pods, 1 Beam Rifle and a Shield.

      Since Nuclear automatically gives a mobile suit 4x more power than Battery. I can see Blast Impulse gets a 2.5X increase in firepower the way Freedom was compared to Launcher Strike.

      That will give Blast Impulse 5 Beam Cannons, 4 Railguns, 2 Beam Tridents, 2 Beam Sabers, 4x8 Missile Pods, 2 Beam Rifle and 1 Solidus Fulgor Beam Shield mounted on Impulse's shield or something.

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    • Reminder, the topic is about Shinn beating Kira. Fantasy evolution of Impulse is completely off-topic.

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    • Shinn beating Kira? What is so difficult about it? Shinn scored a win during Impulse vs Freedom fight enough said.

      It was a win. Fantasy evolution, it isn't even a fantasy evolution, I am just saying what is better, cheaper and easier to accomplish than the Dragoon Flyer. Which is increase the number of battery packs used by the Mobile Suit or to just add Nuclear Reactor and conceal its usage with serial number lettering.

      It isn't exactly fantasy evolution since it is something that is doable for Impulse based on how the tech works in the storyline. Impulse can indeed be equipped with firepower surpassing Freedom Gundam.

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    • In other words, you think this thread reach it concusion.

      If you want to continue discuss about Impulse, make another thread. I'll close this one about ten hours hours after this message. Unless someone has any input on original subject.

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    • Yeah, Shinn scored a win using the Impulse Gundam against a strong foe to Zaft: Freedom Gundam who was disrupting Zaft's operations and was being a serious threat to the Zaft's interests across the globe. 

      In terms of Military record, Shinn did have the win.

      As for skill wise, even then Kira proves to be better. Even Durandal himself states that no one can match Kira's mobile suit piloting skills and Durandal have obviously did his research about Mobile Suit pilots that is why he can give Shinn a rundown on what is Shinn's strengths and weaknesses and how the Destiny Gundam was designed to amplify his strengths. I know they failed to take into account on Destiny Gundam's energy efficiency fluctuating when the machine was put under stress by Shinn Asaka's rough piloting but it was a one time thing.

      Durandal knows what he's talking about and it is a given that Kira Yamato is statistically a much stronger pilot than anyone else in CE. 

      It really is a fine example that the soldier's ability may play a part, but having a stronger soldier with stronger abilities doesn't always win a fight as tactics play a bigger role.

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    • A FANDOM user
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